July 15, 2004
The Cheerful Confessions of Ali G, Borat and Bruno
By VIRGINIA HEFFERNAN
"Da Ali G Show," the British comic Sacha Baron Cohen's stunningly funny HBO series, returns for its second American season on Sunday.
While playing the part of Ali G, an imbecilic and gonzo rapper who speaks in Caribbean-British slang, Mr. Baron Cohen in the first few episodes interviews Pat Buchanan, Sam Donaldson and Gore Vidal. For all the publicity that Ali G received in his initial HBO season, in which he put on the likes of Newt Gingrich, the former astronaut Edwin E. Aldrin Jr. and the former director of central intelligence R. James Woolsey, none of this season's august figures managed to see their disguised interviewer for who he is: a wickedly smart, left-wing comedian and practicing Jew with a degree from Cambridge.
In man-on-the-street interviews and other stunts this season, Mr. Baron Cohen also reprises the characters of Borat, an unwashed, leering Kazakh, and Bruno, an Austrian gadfly from the fashion world. Typically averse to talking out of costume and character, Mr. Baron Cohen still sat down this week to discuss his approach to satire, his fear of America and the secret wild ways of Boutros Boutros-Ghali. Here are excerpts.
VIRGINIA HEFFERNAN Why is Ali G so funny?
SACHA BARON COHEN It's a pretty simple joke, which is why even some kids get it. Essentially you have two people who look totally different — one guy dressed in an absurd yellow jumpsuit, and the other guys dressed in a suit. They're speaking in different ways, with different body language and totally different levels of intelligence.
HEFFERNAN Is it more fun to play pranks on British people or Americans?
BARON COHEN It depends on the class, actually. The best targets — the legitimate targets — are successful, powerful white men, who rule the country. And in Britain the upper class are incredibly accommodating. You can punch someone from the upper class in the face, and they'll go, "Oh, I'm dreadfully sorry." They'll never ever throw you out of the room.
Here, there have been some occasions where people just are blunt, where they will say, "All right, enough is enough." Marlin Fitzwater threw Ali G out of the room. And this year Andy Rooney hated Ali G from the moment he saw him. He starts asking: "Have you done this before? Is English your first language?" And then basically tries to stop the interview after one question.
HEFFERNAN Is Borat an anti-Semite?
BARON COHEN Yeah, yeah. Part of the idea of Borat is to get people to feel relaxed enough that they fully open up. And they say things that they never would on normal TV. So if they are anti-Semitic or racist or sexist, they'll say it.
HEFFERNAN And you asked someone, "Do you have slaves?"
BARON COHEN Exactly. We were in a private gentlemen's club in Jackson, Miss. And all the serving staff were black. There's this unsaid racism; there's still segregation there. I can't remember the actual line, but I asked if he had slaves, and he said, "Slavery's over now." And I go, "Yeah, that's right." He goes, "It's good." And I go, "Good for them!" He goes, "Yeah, good for them. Bad for us."
That guy normally would never say that he thought it's a shame that slavery doesn't exist anymore. But because he's in the room with somebody who's totally naïve and seems to not mind that slavery existed, he was fully honest.
HEFFERNAN So what have you learned about America that you didn't learn when you were in Atlanta working on your college thesis on civil rights?
BARON COHEN Some areas of America are scary. When I was doing Bruno at the Alabama-Mississippi football game, the moment I stood on the field the whole crowd started booing. And about half the crowd started yelling, "Faggot, faggot!" And spitting, and saying, "We're going to kill you." It's a very weird sensation.
HEFFERNAN In general, though, Americans seem like very good sports in the interviews.
BARON COHEN I think the term "sports" is wrong because that implies that they are playing along and they realize they're part of the game. As far as I've seen, they're not.
HEFFERNAN But when you refer to weapons of mass destruction as "B.L.T.'s" in your interview with Pat Buchanan, he picks up on the term and just kind of goes with it. Surely he's in on the joke there.
BARON COHEN Yeah, I was surprised that he didn't correct me. But my interpretation of that is that he thought: "Maybe this stands for something that I don't know. I don't want to appear like a fool." In his mind it could stand for "ballistic long-range trajectory" missiles, or something.
HEFFERNAN Has Borat ever made any real friends?
BARON COHEN Despite him holding these terrible opinions, people really like him. For example, in Mississippi at the wine tasting, I was going, "Do you live in a house?" And he was going, "Yes, I live in a house." "Is it nice?" And he said, "Yeah, you can come and stay with me tonight." They totally loved me, those guys. I kissed one of them on the lips.
HEFFERNAN I know.
BARON COHEN Because I was so drunk at that point.
HEFFERNAN I wondered.
BARON COHEN That was the thing, because I have to keep in character. So they started pouring normal glasses. And I said. "What are you doing? I am not a little girl! Fill it up! I drink vodka!" They started filling them to the top. "More, more, more!" And I think I downed about 21 or 22 glasses of wine in an hour to try and convince them. And I'm not a big drinker at the best of times. I'm almost a teetotaler.
I went to the toilet, totally passed out, and they all came in. My director was really scared that I'd wake up and go, "Allo! What's going on here? Allo," that I'd come up as Sacha Baron Cohen and just say hello. But luckily I opened me eyes, went, "I want more wine!" I woke up in character!
HEFFERNAN Naomi Wolf, whom you interviewed, claims she noticed a problem with Ali G's accent — that it was a fraud. She somehow kept her interview from being shown in the United States, so I don't know what it was like.
BARON COHEN What? She claims she saw through it? Then why did she stay? That's interesting. If she did see through it, why did she stay? Why would she do a rap at the end?
HEFFERNAN Naomi Wolf did a rap at the end? Did she have rhythm?
BARON COHEN She was quite a good rapper. And there's some good raps this time. From Buchanan, and we've got quite a good one from Christine Todd Whitman: "Oh shorty, it's your Earth Day. We're going to party like it's your Earth Day." And you should check out Gore Vidal as well. He becomes quite Irish in his rap.
HEFFERNAN Isn't it interesting to find out who has a kind of theatrical streak? Brent Scowcroft seemed as though he was doing some improv, some shtick. And Boutros Boutros-Ghali did a Pepe LePew impression of the French.
BARON COHEN It's weird. For that time they're in the room with me, sometimes they totally forget who they are. And they come out with a totally different side of themselves. Some try to appear cool with Ali G and down with the kids. Some want to be liked by Ali G. Boutros Boutros-Ghali kept on telling me he used to be a bit of a bully in school, and he used to muck around. They want Ali G's approval. They're in the room with a total idiot, and yet they're seeking his approval. As if it somehow makes them cooler.
